- Half of the world's
largest companies rely on
Workday Enterprise Software.
and Workday's co-founder, co-CEO
is once again, thinking big.
- We've gotta do the right thing.
We've gotta create opportunities
for those that don't have opportunities.
- He wants to deliver more than results
for shareholders or even stakeholders.
Aneel Bhusri, is with us today
to talk about the future of work
and making sure a company has a soul.
- That's the way we're gonna get
through this period of time together.
- Let's find out what he means.
Hi Aneel, thank you for joining us today.
- Thanks Monica, great to be with you.
- Let's start with the name
of this show, The Inflection Point.
Do you have one of those moments
when everything changed for you?
I was in between years at
Stanford Business School
and I randomly ran into George Still
who's one of my closest
friends and mentors,
at a Burger King and he
said, "Go see Dave Duffield,"
a legendary human in the software world,
and just a great human being.
I went and had drinks with Dave.
Back then he drank
Chardonnay, I drank beers,
now we both drink Chardonnay
'cause I just follow what Dave says.
You know, he said after
a couple of drinks that,
"Hey, I'm not sure what
I'm gonna do with you.
Why don't you take a few months off?
I'd like to give you a job
and come back and work
for me in the fall."
And I remember telling my
friends, "What an amazing guy,
but HR Accounting Software,
that seems pretty boring.
I'll do this for a couple of years
and then I'll go to Apple
or someplace like that."
- Apple was much more cool, come on!
- Exactly, and 20 years later,
I'm still doing HR and
Accounting Software.
- So you really did have
an Inflection Point.
- Yeah, first George, and
then Dave changed my life.
- Well, it's really fascinating that,
in addition to doing
that kind of software,
you've also kept this
same friendship with Dave,
and you all have almost a
three decade difference in age.
How has it worked so well that this story
of your professional life is
also a story of friendship?
- You know, in some ways,
I think the age difference made it easier.
We're not competing with each other.
I knew I couldn't be Dave
and our relationship started
out with Dave being my mentor,
and over time that grew into friendship.
He was one of the best men at my wedding
and our roles have evolved over time,
but it's all built on
this great friendship
which comes from a view of similar values.
Dave's one of the kindest, nicest
human beings I've ever come across.
And he was focused on being a great CEO
and creating a company that
was a great place to work
before it was fashionable.
- Exactly, and he cared about values
way before people started
talking about values and purpose.
I mean, he cared about
it like 30 years ago.
And I've been fortunate
to bump into people
like Dave in my life
that had the right set
of values and had a purpose,
and then they had their success as opposed
to their success driving
the need to have a purpose.
- Aneel, not all best
friends can work together,
and not only just work
together, but do it forever.
And then, is it really true
you all have never had a fight?
- We've never had a fight.
You can't say that about my wife,
you can't say that about his wife,
but Dave and I have never had a fight.
We solve it over a glass of Chardonnay,
and if it takes more than
one, we'll keep doing it
until we're on the same page.
I love Dave like a second father.
- Okay, now let's tell our viewers
I have Workday on my
laptop right here as a tab.
Half of all Fortune 500
companies use Workday.
Tell us exactly what Workday is
for those who happen not to know.
- So we started out as
an HR Software company
and the big shift was that
we moved what we had done
at PeopleSoft, which was a
leading HR software company,
Oracle bought PeopleSoft,
didn't want me and Dave,
and we thought, "Hey there's
this transition happening,"
so let's take HR into the
cloud and that's expanded
over the last 15 years
to now include finance,
it includes planning on the front end
and then analytics on the backend.
We're now up to 3,000 customers,
at $4 billion in revenues
and cranking along,
taking customers away from SAP and Oracle.
- (laughs) I know, I see that occasionally
when you go on Cramer and talk
about getting Caterpillar.
Is it true that you and Dave
came up with the Workday
on a piece of paper at
a diner over breakfast?
- Sort of, so I would say
that the real story was,
we were trying to save PeopleSoft
during the end of the hostile takeover.
And I started working on an idea
about what would HR and
finance look in the Cloud?
We had the idea, what was on
the napkin was the values.
- How are we gonna build
this company differently?
The tech industry and
the Fortune 500 world
should be very grateful
to me as I convinced Dave
he had one more startup left in him.
He was 65 at the time, and I
said, "Dave, you gotta do this.
We can do something really special here
but it won't happen without you."
And I knew that it wouldn't
happen without him.
He's an icon and customers loved him,
and he said, "I got one more in me."
And then he decided to
move his whole family down
from Nevada back to California
for a period of time
just to get Workday going.
- Wow, now it's interesting though,
that PeopleSoft didn't want
either of you after you
had done such a great job,
and was the hostile
takeover really hostile
- I would say it's
hostile with a capital H.
And I have a ton of respect for Larry,
he's done amazing things
in building Oracle,
but that was not the future
we wanted for PeopleSoft,
But in many ways, you know,
I'm grateful to Oracle and to Larry.
Workday would have been a lot harder to do
as part of PeopleSoft
versus a brand new startup.
- So, you're glad that
he was so hostile to you?
- In hindsight yes, in hindsight yes.
at the time it felt like
hell probably, but anyway
about what Workday's doing in the future?
- Well, so the first thing is,
we're trying to underpin
everything with machine learning,
and I'm careful to use word
artificial intelligence
because I think that's overstepping it.
But machine learning is
a way to take advantage
of all the data that's captured
and help companies make better decisions.
We acquired a company
called Adaptive Planning
which has been very powerful
during this COVID world.
And then we acquired another
company to help us get going
on the analytics side called Platfora,
so we can plan and execute,
analyze all on one platform.
During COVID, a company
came along called Peakon
and we recognized that
they were really important
Everybody's working remotely,
we don't know how our
employees are feeling
about the company, feeling
about their manager,
and this company really
came up with a new way
of doing employee engagement analysis.
- And then with COVID, what have you done
to help your customers with that issue?
- Many of our customers
are using our HR system
to track reports around COVID cases.
And most recently we came out
with a vaccine management
system that enables companies
to figure out how they
can bring employees back
in a safe way into the workplace.
So we're just trying to
support our great customers.
Many of them are a combination
of frontline workers
and then almost every major
pharmaceutical company,
Johnson & Johnson, AstraZeneca, Pfizer,
they're all Workday customers
and they're saving us.
So our job is just to support them
as they go through this
really challenging time.
Now let's talk a little bit
about your leadership approach.
We've talked about how you and
Dave are such close friends,
and you work well together,
and you were co-CEOs.
Now, having watched CEOs my whole life,
this is not usually a formula that works.
I mean, most of the time
this structure is not popular
and it often fails when you
look at how often it's tried.
How does it work for you?
Are you just such a friendly guy?
- I think it's the culture
that Dave and I built
So for the first four or five
years, he was the sole CEO.
When we went public, we
were co-CEOs for five years,
and then I was sole CEO
for the last eight years,
And I would say my
favorite time was when Dave
Two is better than one,
we're best friends.
We can divide and conquer,
and I think Workday
benefited from that model.
If you can check your ego at the door,
When you can't check your ego
at the door, it's complicated,
but I really appreciated
having a partner in crime.
- I think the ego thing is big,
'cause CEOs, they're used
to like being in charge.
And I also say that it
helps when your interests
are not overlapping, where
they're really complimentary.
- You've been described as
an optimist and an introvert.
This is what I've read about you.
Now, I understand you
have to be an optimist
because most startups
fail in Silicon Valley,
but usually you have to be an extrovert
because you have to be the
master of an elevator pitch.
So how can you be both an introvert,
and an optimist in Silicon Valley?
Or do you dispute those
two terms about you?
- I'm definitely an optimist,
there's no question about it.
There's no way to start a
company without optimism
and Winston Churchill
had a great quote during,
you know, during World War II,
"I choose to be an
optimist because basically
the other choice is not very good."
As it relates to being an introvert,
Dave and I are both convert introverts.
I think it makes us better listeners.
My first instinct when I'm
sitting down with someone,
I don't feel compelled to talk.
And over time, I've
learned to conquer my fear
of talking and become right on the line,
I'm an introvert versus an extrovert,
but I really do like to listen.
- And Dave also told you
somewhere along the way
that no one's ever learned
anything while talking.
- That's exactly it, and
I took that to heart.
And the way I try to run a
meeting is I try to listen
and understand where everybody
is before I weigh in.
Because if you want to drive a group,
you want to get them on the same page,
you really do have to listen first.
- Now, you clearly, when the
two of you started Workday,
And did you actually interview
your first 500 employees
or is that just a Workday myth now?
- No, we did, and actually
Dave and I interviewed
the first 500, and I went well past 500.
- And we were interviewing them purely
for cultural fit and values alignment.
Not for whether they had
the right marketing skills,
the right development skills.
We assumed our teams got that right.
But we wanted to make sure
that they would fit in our value system.
It's about having a sense of humor.
it was about the way they talked
about their peers and other companies.
- And now, you don't obviously still
interview your employees as they're hired,
but do you make sure the people who do it
How have you passed that along?
- Part of the benefit of integrating
those first 500 people was, we told them,
"You're cultural carriers
now and you have to make sure
that the next 5,000 who
come into the company
see the world the same way we do:
built around a team, built around ethics,
around doing business the right way,
giving back to the community."
We're now well past that additional 5,000,
but those original 500 employees are so
scattered all over the company
and all over the globe,
and they make sure that we're continuing
- Somewhere along the way,
did you actually say
culture trumps strategy?
Are you that big of a believer in culture?
- That sounds crazy to me.
What if your strategy was stupid,
and you just all loved each other?
- The right culture
drives the right strategy.
If you have the right culture,
they put all their thoughts
forward and you can collectively come up
They'll use the culture to figure out
what the right next
thing is to do and do it.
- Interesting, now
you've benefited clearly
from Dave being your
mentor at the beginning,
but do you now reverse mentor?
- I do.
- Explain what that process
is, the reverse mentoring?
- I've had it in a couple of areas.
I was a deep technologist 20 years ago
but I'm not that close
to technology anymore.
And so I'll have some of our
smart technologists every now
and then just mentor me on
"Here's where the technology
is, here's where it's going
and here's what we need to do."
I say even a finer point
on that is what's happened
during the last year with social justice.
I really wanted to understand
the life of a Black person
at Workday or a Latinx
person at Workday.
And so I signed up two
individuals, one woman, one man,
very well-respected and
successful executives at Workday,
just to help me understand
what was going on.
because I didn't think about some
of the challenges they faced.
So, you know, for the man,
who's become a very good friend,
he talked to me about
how he felt safe at work
and he felt safe at home,
but not anywhere inbetween.
And I thought, 'My God,
we've gotta fix that."
And I really didn't have
any insight into that,
"I'll mentor you on your career,
You mentor me on these social issues
and make me better so I
can make Workday better."
- And did they view that
as a positive for them
or did they really view as a
way they could be open to you
or they're a little bit nervous?
"I don't know if I should
tell him the real truth."
- Well, you'd have to ask them,
but I think the first three
months they were nervous,
and trying to figure it out and, you know,
we're now nine months into it.
I think the last three to four months
we've just become friends.
It helps me think through
these issues in a better way,
and hopefully for them, it
feels like we really do care.
We really want to do the right thing.
- That's actually really
fortunate for you,
- It is, it's a gift to me.
- Now, when COVID first came about,
when we all had to change and go remote,
you took a step with all your employees
to support the workforce.
What did you do, and why?
- We looked at it and said,
"This could be a long haul.
This can be a really difficult time.
People are gonna lose their jobs,
that started happening really quickly,
And so let's just try to
take financial stress out
of the lives out of our employees."
So, we gave every
employee a two-week bonus.
We thought, "Let's just
get ahead of the curve,
and give them some comfort that,
A) we're gonna support them,
and they're gonna continue
to be employed at Workday.
But B) if there's a family member
or a spouse that's being impacted,
hopefully this helps in a
little way to, you know,
to get through this really difficult time.
- And did you need to bring it up
to your board or you're just like,
"We're doing it and that's it."
- I said "We're doing it."
- Okay.
- We got a great board.
Do you hope that you're
back in the office?
Are you looking for a hybrid model or,
"Eh, we can do this remote."
- It's a tricky question these days.
I personally like to be in the office.
I get energy from being
around our employees.
especially on the
software development side,
does not happen over Zoom.
I love Zoom, it's a great
product, but we're...
- And you're Zooming me from home,
you're at home right now, aren't you?
- I'm at home, it's Groundhog Day,
I'm home, once again, doing a Zoom call.
I also think you can't
really have a great culture
- So it comes back to culture,
it's back to culture with you.
- Now, another issue that's very big
in the last year, stakeholder capitalism.
It's so en vogue, that even
the Business Roundtable
So it's no longer just
shareholder capitalism,
it's stakeholder capitalism,
but you have even gone beyond that.
You have said "a corporation
should have a soul." What!?
- I think many of today's current CEOs
really believe in that same concept.
They might not use the word soul,
but if you ask them about
that, they would agree with it.
Whether it's Market Salesforce
or Doug McMillon at Walmart,
Mary Barra at GM, or John Donahoe at Nike,
they all believe in doing the right things
from a stakeholder capitalism perspective
and taking care of those
people in the world
that maybe are left behind.
And what I realized, is
that that's what Dave
and I had been practicing
for many, many years.
We were focused not just on
taking care of shareholders,
want to take care of employees,
want to take care of customers,
very importantly, we want to
take care of the community.
And that last piece is
where you need a soul.
The world's going through
a really challenging time
with COVID, with layoffs,
with social and racial justice issues.
Corporations are groups of people,
and they need to step in,
And, you know, so much
of a person's life today,
We've gotta do the right thing.
We've gotta create opportunities
for those that don't have opportunities.
We need to step in when
there are inequities.
We need to say what's right
on topics like immigration.
It's really, I think it's incumbent
and I'm so proud of
today's generation of CEOs
because the ones I look up to,
they run it from a stakeholder
capitalism perspective.
- Aneel, they don't say the
company should have a soul.
You have gone a little bit
farther about the soul thing.
- I bet they would say that if asked,
I just articulated it in a
way that I thought about it,
and Dave thought about it.
- It's interesting that this
may have shaped your view
when you talk about opportunity.
Tell me a little bit about that.
I think somewhere along
the way I read you said,
"Talent is everywhere,
but opportunity is not."
That was a profound statement.
- Well, it's not a fair
world for everybody.
Michael Bush, who's now
on our board of directors,
who runs the Great
Place to Work Institute.
He hasn't talked about
great places to work,
he talks about great
places to work for all.
And we have to make
these work environments
And sometimes they might not
have gone to the right schools,
they might not have
had the right training,
but there's talent out there.
And it's incumbent on
us to find that talent
and bring them into the workforce.
We've gotta create
opportunities for everybody.
called Opportunity Onramps to do that.
- Can you also help the companies
improve their own diversity and inclusion?
- Absolutely, we wanna help all
of our customers be better on this topic,
and our customers wanna
be better on this topic.
And the first thing you need
to do to be to be better,
is you gotta track the data.
I'd say the second thing,
which is the more complicated part,
is you gotta share the data externally.
If you don't share it,
you're really not owning it,
and so we shared our data,
which was not great, but getting better,
actually getting better pretty rapidly.
And I think it's really important,
that if you wanna be better in this topic,
measure the data, share the
data, improve on the data.
- Okay, let's switch from Workday
for just a sec to Greylock Partners,
a famous venture capital
firm here in Silicon Valley.
You were the managing partner for a while,
and there were a couple companies
that you actually helped bring to market.
Tell us a little bit about
that and how were you so smart
to pick those and pull them out?
Because they are big names today.
- I joined Greylock 'cause I
was fascinated with startups.
And then as managing
partner, my partner Dave Sze
brought two companies to the
table, LinkedIn and Facebook.
Candidly, I can't say
I understood Facebook
but it seemed like a good
idea, but I loved LinkedIn.
LinkedIn to me was the natural extension
of where HR was going, and the idea
that you'd create a network that could be
over time a recruiting network.
And you know, I love Reed Hoffman,
and today he's one of my best friends.
- Well, maybe you're all best friends
'cause you made him rich.
- (laughs) I would say,
he made himself rich.
He created an incredible company
and we were just
fortunate to be investors.
- But you were dead on
on LinkedIn and Facebook
for sure, on the fact that
they would grow so big.
Now, most people would
say, "You have a dream job,
you're a big time tech CEO."
I think that you want to
be a professional golfer.
I see Phil Mickelson
wearing a Workday shirt
every time he's out playing golf.
I've seen pictures of you with Steph Curry
at a charity golf tournament.
Tell me about your real dream job.
- Oh, it is definitely to
be a professional golfer.
I just wished I had that talent.
I love that game I grew up as
a competitive tennis player,
and what I'd like to say is,
I was a really good player,
at 25 pounds and 25 years ago, but
I got worse as time went on
and golf's one of those sports,
you can get better with
age, but most importantly,
it's a great way to
spend time with friends.
Now, since you love to
play golf with friends,
and we are now new
friends, aren't we Aneel?
- Okay, so, I wanna
learn to play golf, okay?
I actually have some clubs
that I've never used.
- I'm not good enough
to teach you to play,
but I will bring a coach
that can teach both
- Okay, listen, I'm really gonna play golf
with you one of these days.
- Well, let's do this,
I'll bring the coach.
- I'm not that good. (laughs)
- Okay, thank you so much
for joining me today.
- Thank you, Monica, it
was really a pleasure.
- Next time on The Inflection Point,
I'll chat with Dee and Jimmy Haslam,
owners of the Cleveland Browns.
- Everybody in the country knows
how your football team did on Sunday.
When you win, it's the ultimate high.
- When we lose, it's crickets.
- Social justice has been the forefront
of the national conversation.
- We've had a lot of conversations
with our players, now
we should have done it long
before these issues came up.
- The platform of an
NFL owner is a high one
and it gives you the
opportunity to have an impact.